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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2013.05.15 15:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:I love the idea of your clone scaling with your ship loss. The hard part is associating the two. You'd almost be replacing the idea of podding by removing it. That's not great. Really, you need to satisfy three sides:
- Dead pods: Give a reason to kill pods and cause grief. If it's not worth killing people's pods, just remove them from the game.
- Improve PVP: Make it easier for people to pvp, even if they have skill bonus implants (ick, dump them). Hardwiring people are paying for the bonuses, so obviously would lose hardwirings when they die. Mindlinks, I'm torn on, just because they're grossly undersupplied due to how they're currently being distributed, like Level 4 missions need bonuses like this.
- Isk sink: I have no idea how deep this isk sink is, but I would guess someone could pull that number.
Just have your clone cost cumulatively go up based on the cost of ships you've lost since your last clone upgrade.
Just like the bounty payout, but instead it's a cumulative cost that is assigned to your character, next time you lose your pod, you need to pay that value to upgrade your clone.
I still think the fixed cost mechanic of clones is terrible and it taxes certain play-styles more than others with no real reason behind it. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:A small comment on EVE philosophy from me related to some of the conversation in here:
No one here at CCP wants to reduce consequences in EVE as a whole.
The fact that your actions have real consequences is obviously one of the most central parts of EVE design, and I promise that we don't want to move away from that as an over all design philosophy. The thing we are looking at with clones, is that currently the consequences are attached to something arbitrary (account age) which is potentially causing people to actually engage in less risky behavior overall.
There's a lot of directions the clone system COULD go, and I can't say anything specific about that right now. The important thing here is that we A: don't want to make a style of game-play, which we like, inaccessible via an arbitrary tax, and B: generally, consequences aren't going anywhere, so don't worry. Lowering the cost by 30% is moving in the right direction, but if we already know it's a bad mechanic, why stop there? Bring it down further or cap it at a certain amount as a band aid measure while you decide on which way you want it to go?
I just worry that this temporary fix to a dumb mechanic will only serve to push the real fix further down on your list of priorities, much like fixing local rep hull bonuses was briefly touched on but has yet to be actually fixed.
If your intent is to reduce the amount of risk aversion caused by clone costs, 30% won't cut it. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:I have to disagree with CCP Rise that clone cost is arbitrary cost. It is not bound to account age is mistakenly claimed, but to characterGÇÖs XP. Character's XP will directly improve player's combat (and other) capabilities, so it is not inappropriate to charge additional cost for losing more powerful clone, much on the same principle as we charge more for losing more powerful ship.
To be honest reducing clone cost by 30% is hardly a disaster, I don't expect significant metagame shifts because of it alone. What IGÇÖm fearing is slippery slope. If faulty reasoning that is used to justify this change takes root more significant game changes may be introduced that will lead to serious weakening of game design principles that I mentioned in my original post. Higher SP gives you more options for pvp, but when flying a combat T1 ship 90m SP won't necessarily be better than 45m SP since a lot of higher tier skills won't impact your ability to fly that ship. Higher SP don't make a "more powerful clone", that's faulty reasoning right there.
The difference between the consequences of losing an expensive ship vs losing an expensive clone is that I have the ability to chose what ship I fly, but I don't get to choose which skills to take on my clone to reduce the cost. You can always chose to not fly what you can't afford to lose, but not on the clone. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rise, would you be able to go a little more into the details of how you and why you chose that 30% across the board figure?
It seems to me like the real problem is not 'across the board' so neither should the solution.
Even after the changes a Mu clone (keeps 20m SP) is keeping 21.32 SP/isk while a Tau clone (keeps 120m SP) is keeping 5.71 SP/isk. The top grade clone is keeping 3 SP/isk while the first clone is keeping 49.28 SP/isk.
If you want to see if changing the cost of clones will impact player behavior, I don't think your 30% across the board approach is significant enough to reflect on the higher SP player's play-style. Perhaps a cap on the SP/isk ratio of clones would be more appropriate? |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Re CCP Rise's statement in https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/MeBiatch post; I think Eve would have more interaction if the dps/tank/cap/options disparity between well trained pilots and less well trained pilots were not so great. As it stands clone costs is one of the only things offsetting that difference, it doesn't do a great job of that. Maybe we also talk about some options for unwinding the power creep bubble that affects all of these games after a certain amount of time. That combined with ideas for consequences that will replace the ISK setback for a clone loss. If only they made some effort to reduce the disparity between the ships newer players can fly and those the super-veterans can... Something like a ship rebalancing effort...
I fail to see how you think clone cost affects the dps/tank/cap/options disparity. Total SP makes the disparity, clone costs just affects the willingness to engage and the consequence of losing. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:The subscription fee idea has the potential to reduce the balancing effect of clone costs the most. Well removing them entirely from the game would be worse I guess.
Much better to make them a player made item. There have been all kinds of cool ideas about how that would work. And body snatchers would be an awesome new profession. You keep referencing this non-existent "balancing effect" of the current system; paying more when your clone dies doesn't make you worse at pvp, it only makes you pvp less frequently, which is bad for the game. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daedra Blue wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Something like the ship rebalancing for skills would be perfect. they could tone down the advantages for skill levels by 50% across the board or something and remove a few areas that multiply a bit too sharply.
Yes total SP makes the disparity, increasing clone costs act as a limit on high SP characters as those characters are a little more hesitant to engage due to the consequences of losing.
Its not perfect but combined with inflationary reduction in the real cost of clones over time it does act as a sort of equalizer. Reducing impact of spending YEARS to train, will dilute the potential feel of more powerful character. Something EvE is already lacking due to tearing. Improvement is limited due to this as two people with a 3M SP chars in Assault frigs, can easily smack the living hell out of some 120M sp BS pilot. and at around 5M sp both pilots have the same advantages at frigate levels. So what are you talking about here? Veterans just have more options not wild power. That's why skills affect tiers of ships and don't collectively stack up. only a hand full of skills affect what you do at any one time. I think he's just trolling us. Either that or he is just that dumb and shouldn't be taken seriously.
It's probably best to just ignore him either way, quoting him just gives his stupid ideas some level of validity and promotes further bad-posting. |

Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:The neat thing about Eve is that if one door closes you can roll another char up and try again. I knew you were a troll... |
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